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Post by donniehoward on Jun 25, 2010 1:20:26 GMT -5
Sure, Fedor is the greatest heavyweight of all time, but if we are strictly going by right now, today, he isn't the top heavyweight and I will even go out on a limb and say 2 or 3 UFC Heavyweights would beat Fedor right now.
Fedor is extremely intelligent. He knows he has this giant aura and mystique about him and has the love and respect of all MMA fans who will say he is the greatest. so why fight competition and lose that when u can go to Strikeforce, beat up a bunch of UFC washouts and other various rejects, pad your record, bank account and mystique?
Fedor hides behind M-1 Global to make them look like the bad guys to hide the fact he does not want to come to the UFC, because he knows if he does, his illusion of invincibility will be quickly shattered.
I've never been a Fedor fan. I respect his talent, his demeanor and his graciousness/dedication etc. There were several instances in Pride where Fedor didn't look good at all against wrestlers. Remember Kevin Randleman almost breaking his neck? or Mark Coleman consistently getting takedowns and even having Fedor's back?
The Andrei Arlovski/Tim Sylvia wins were impressive until u see what has happened to both of those fighters.
When i first started seeing cracks in the Fedor armor is when he fought 185 pounder Matt Lindland. Lindland cut Fedor with a JAB! had a takedown but Fedor cheated and grabbed the ropes thus landing on Matt and was able to gain top control and secure the win.
Fedor doesn't want any part of the mammoth UFC heavyweights. If Brock Lesnar gets him down int he positions Bret Rogers had him in, he pounds Fedor through the octagon and that fight ends brutally with Fedor being pounded into oblivion.
so after Fedor beats Werdum Saturday.. i guarantee he won't fight Allistar Overeem.. they will probably bring in someone from the local jiffy lube or Publix supermarket next and try to brainwash me into believing Fedor is still the greatest.
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joeb
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Post by joeb on Jun 25, 2010 10:13:57 GMT -5
Who exactlly in the ufc do you think is better/can beat fedor? Besides brock?
And who has brock fought? Frank mir, not impressive, old ass randy cotoure? that he had prolly 60 lbs on, not impressive, heath herring was shit in the ufc, not impressive.... He hasn't beaten anyone that's anything. Look at fedor's record, he has beaten anyone and everyone.
I do agree that he should come to the ufc but don't think for a minute that he isn't because he is scared. Overeem is head and shoulders above lesnar, mir, cain, santos, carwin, and fedor went to the organization where he is.
The only reason he get's cut by jabs or whatever is because all of the scar tissue that he has. You know that has plays a big part in cuts with all fighters... And if brock had 30plus fights he would just as anyone does have scar tissue and would open up easilly also... but he doesn't because he has only had a handful of fights.
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 25, 2010 11:53:36 GMT -5
I am just going by what I've seen lately. Brett Rogers was CLOSE to winning that fight. So i base it a lot on the fact that Rogers was able to put Fedor on his back, avoid the sub and come close to pounding him out. Maybe it is MMA fighter math which doesn't work, but u can guarantee Brock will put Fedor on his back.. and Brock is 100 times the grappler Bret Rogers is.. so makes u wonder just how exactly Fedor would get off the bottom? Hell if Hung Man Choi had any skill, he had Fedor mounted!!!!!!!!
Fedor will probably fight Bobby Lashley or Big Foot Silva after Werdum.
Like i said, Im not taking anything away from the Pride Fedor. just saying as of today, I think Brock has surpassed him.
the other 2 UFC Fighters.. ok, maybe that was a little overboard but I do think Carwin has the power to test him and maybe Velasquez.
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Post by Jimbo Collins on Jun 25, 2010 13:13:37 GMT -5
I think Fedor is the best fighter in the world. I also think his age is eventually going to cause him to lose a fight. It's a fact that Father Time catches us all. Fedor is a machine. Randalman slammed him on his neck and it didn't slow him down. Mark Hunt had him caught in a full fledged armbar and he didn't tap. Bret Rogers broke his nose early in the fight. Have you ever had a broken nose? You can't imagine the pain and vision loss.
I think, if Lesnar continues to grow and learn in MMA he may turn into a fighter that would beat Fedor. Right now, Fedor is too smart and a very underestimated grappler. It is unfortunate that Fedor is owned by the Russian Mafia and isn't allowed to make his own decisions. There is absolutely NO competition for Fedor in Strikeforce and that is just the way it is. He will walk through Alistar Overeem. The fact is, no promotion has any legit competition for Fedor.
Is he beatable? Yes...there is no human on the face of the earth that cannot be KO'd or caught in a submission. The judges are always hard to predict. Is he still the best fighter in the world??? I certainly think so.
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 25, 2010 19:35:59 GMT -5
Still don't agree, since 2005 he has defeated 42 year old Mark Coleman, Matt Lindland who is a MW, Hung Man Choi, Arlovski,Sylvia who also got knocked out by Ray Mercer shortly thereafter, and then he beat Bret Rogers who was working at Sam's Club 2 months before the fight and Rogers destroyed him in the first round.
2000-2005 he was the greatest
but right now, today in 2010, I think Brock would demolish him.
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Post by Jimbo Collins on Jun 25, 2010 19:58:07 GMT -5
Still don't agree, since 2005 he has defeated 42 year old Mark Coleman, Matt Lindland who is a MW, Hung Man Choi, Arlovski,Sylvia who also got knocked out by Ray Mercer shortly thereafter, and then he beat Bret Rogers who was working at Sam's Club 2 months before the fight and Rogers destroyed him in the first round. 2000-2005 he was the greatest but right now, today in 2010, I think Brock would demolish him. He beats everybody that steps in the ring with him. Sometimes he gets playful as he did with Rogers. His company got half the money from that fight and there are dollars to be made as long as people are watching live televised events. I'm sure Fedor didn't want to dispose of the tire-changer turned fighter early and that is the only reason he danced his way through the first round. Fedor is a Sambo and submission expert. Very fast and powerful as a HW and it would take a miracle for someone to beat him. Brock Lesnar would have no answer for the leglocks Fedor could throw at him. |
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 25, 2010 20:04:48 GMT -5
I think Rogers had him in big time trouble in rd 1. I think if he had a little more experience, he may have been able to win that fight.
Fedor does have the greatest chin in MMA history, there is no and if or buts about that.
Can Fedor move the sure power and strength of Brock though? U don't think Brock could grind out a decision?
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Post by Jimbo Collins on Jun 25, 2010 20:44:17 GMT -5
I think Rogers had him in big time trouble in rd 1. I think if he had a little more experience, he may have been able to win that fight. Fedor does have the greatest chin in MMA history, there is no and if or buts about that. Can Fedor move the sure power and strength of Brock though? U don't think Brock could grind out a decision? If it is a non-title fight then yes I agree that Brock would have an excellent shot at holding The Last Emperor down for 3 rounds and winning a decision. If it is a title fight and Fedor has 25 minutes to work with, Brock Lesnar will eventually get caught with Fedor's power or his submission ability. I don't think Fedor will ever tapout. I honestly think that Fabricio Werdum presents the biggest challenge in his career tomorrow night. If Werdum were to win, I would say I'm not 100 percent surprised. I think it would have to be a choke and I think Fedor will have to be put to sleep. If I had 1000 to play with, I would go to Vegas and bet it on Werdum in a choke for a win. To me, however, it would be the equivalent of Douglas knocking out Tyson. Boy, the money that could have been won that night huh? |
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joeb
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Post by joeb on Jun 25, 2010 21:32:38 GMT -5
If If If If If..... Lesnar isn't an mma fighter, he is a big guy that can wrestle but mainly just uses his size. That's the only advantage he has. Skill wise he isn't even in the top 15 heavyweights.
He has no skill. You talk about all the things that ppl have done to fedor, and how they have had him in this position and that, who has finished him NO ONE. That's a real fighter.....
Lesnar is the most overrated fighter ever. He can't box, can't kick box, no j.j. no nothing accept wrestling. He couldn't finish heath herring and he had his back for 2 rounds. And herring nor anyone that he has fought or will fight doesn't compare to fedor.
You are a Lesnar fan we know that but the facts are the facts.
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 25, 2010 21:44:27 GMT -5
If Brock isn't then i guess GSP isn't either cause he is worse than Brock at using wrestling to blanket his opponent.
Brock has very underrated boxing. his footowork has gotten really decent. He did land a punch that doubled Herring over and he did knock out Randy. I just hope Fedor will stop ducking Brock and come to the UFC. I will bet a thousand on Brock for real if they were to fight.
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Post by Jimbo Collins on Jun 26, 2010 0:03:20 GMT -5
Joe, I have to disagree with Lesnar not being an MMA fighter. There are many great MMA fighters who began fighting in MMA with only a wrestling base. Randy Couture is one that shoots directly into mind. Dan Severn, Don Frye, Kevin Randalman, Tito Ortiz, Rashad Evans and the list goes on and on. Lesnar won the NCAA national title as a wrestler. Couple that wrestling with his massive size and power... not to mention his uncanny speed and unbelievable reach. He is going to be hard for anyone to beat.
He learned a valuable lesson in his loss to Mir. Believe me, Mir is no joke. He is one of the best HW's in the world. He beat the hell out of Mir in the second fight and he destroyed the Legend Randy Couture. Heath Herring is a monster and one of the most experienced fighters in the game today. Herring actually fought Fedor in Pride and did very well. Fedor was unable to finish Herring and it was at the end of the first round (a ten minute round) when the Dr. stopped the fight due to a cut. Something that Pride had an enormous problem with in its day. In 42 professional MMA fights, Herring has submitted one time and that was to Nogeuira six years ago.
Lesnar is the second best HW in the world behind Fedor IMO. I think the fight could go either way and it would depend largely on the amount of rounds. Brock is still somewhat of a newcomer to MMA and it is untelling what he can learn. He is training with different people and upping his game now. I just hope if the Lesnar vs. Fedor fight happens it doesn't happen years down the road when Fedor is out of his prime.
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joeb
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Post by joeb on Jun 26, 2010 16:46:29 GMT -5
Yeah everyone usually comes with some type of back ground and it's usually wrestling or the american's. He is a wrestler who is unbelievably strong, he is not a mixed martial artist. He may be one day but he isn't now.... Just as randy cotoure wasn't when he started and everyone else who comes in with only one skill. A mixed martial artist is a complete fighter, not someone who is good at only one thing.
And donnie, "descent" footwork isn't good foot work, far from it.
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 26, 2010 16:50:16 GMT -5
U know what.. i am kinda changing my stance now in light of recent events. Did u guys see where TapouT had a one million dollar 7 year contract with Fedor but the UFC got wind and told TapouT they'd be banned from the UFC if they went through with the deal? so tapout pulled out of the deal.
so Fuck the UFC, I now hope Fedor does come to the UFC and beats all their heavyweights and rubs it in their face.
I have a love/hate with Dana White. there are a lot of things i like about him but shit like this just pisses me off.
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joeb
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Post by joeb on Jun 26, 2010 16:51:54 GMT -5
Also you mentioned randleman, ortiz, frye, severn, those guys aren't and weren't mixed martial artist either. All they were was just a little ahead of the game when they first started and so they did pretty good at first. But once the sport started growing and the guys started improving and training in all aspects of mma those guys you mentioned fail off the radar.
I don't care if boxing, bjj, wrestling, mui tai, etc...... if you are only one dementianal then you aren't a mixed martial artist.
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Post by donniehoward on Jun 26, 2010 16:55:39 GMT -5
The UFC at times has started leaning more towards the Ultimate Wrestling Championships as wrestlers are really starting to dominate.
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